Tangerine Dream equipment info research project.

Dieses Thema im Forum "SyntheTisch" wurde erstellt von whiteeagle1973made, 9. September 2011.

  1. Hello to everyone,
    Many years now, I’m on a research for various custom pieces used by Tangerine Dream and especially Christopher Franke, during the years 1980 to 1984.
    Around 2006, I had post a picture to “Matrixsynth blog”, featuring Chris Franke’s modular construction – the big one that he used in tours and the studio.
    Please find attached a new revised version of this picture, with the most correct info I was able to find.

    The reason why I post this new revised version, is to find more info about the unknown pieces of equipment and especially (if I’m lucky) to know who’s made these, as I understand that it would be a delight for many gear freaks to read info about.

    Of course, it makes sense to post in a German forum, as it has more chances to meet people that may know info about.
    I’m not any kind of journalist, I’m just a music technology and T.D. fanatic and I’m doing this in my spare time.

    I’m planning to make a freely public available PDF- as I saw that many people made for bands such as Pink Floyd – but if there’s a band that may excites the gear freak, that would be Tangerine Dream: they always were (and still are) on the leading edge of technology, collaborating with equipment companies or ordering special custom equipment, such as the one I’m researching about.
    Of course, when I’m able to have this paper ready for distribution, I will carefully give copyright credit to anyone helped and I will ask for license for the pictures or info via email.
    It is not my intention to “steal” data and using it as my own – people had problems in the past with such things.
    Also keep in mind that I’m not doing it to making any money or something

    Allow me here please, to take the chance and say a big “THANK YOU” to the people I contacted and they helped me providing info, during these years, while I’m in this research:

    Stephen Parsick, Dirk Matten, Jesper “electronic-obsession”, Till Kopper, Modulator, Andy “24db” King, Paul Maddox (for his essential PPG CD-ROM), Kevin Lightner, Dr. Wolgang Palm, Lars “Waveterm” Johansson, Carsten Werner, Ed Buller, Fabio “Electric Garden Studios”, Thomas Hopf, Intercorni, especially Mirko Luethge for the pictures and info and everyone who responded in Tangerine Dream forum.

    Thank you again,
    please feel free to contact me and excuse my bad English
    (I’m from Greece and English is not my motherly language).


    and the full link, as the forum's page cropped my image
    http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p463 ... 3_2011.jpg
  2. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    Actually, it´s Stephen Parsick but thanks for mentioning me :).

    And, of course :hallo:


  3. O.k., I fixed that,
    Nice to meet you again :D
  4. Moogulator

    Moogulator Admin

    the synth module on the left looks a bit like a Kobol below the SCI.
  5. Actually I learned that inside contains an E-MU voice card , this was a simplified 'Audity' style card:
    I saw in a more close-up photo provided by Andy King that it is a standard LFO, two-vco, multimode VCF, two ADSR monosynth.
    check this please: :)

    http://www.emulatorarchive.com/Synthesi ... ssmvc.html

    The unit I'm interested heavily to find info about is the white 8-bit drum computer, down-right: Dr. Palm told me that it wasn't a prototype for the PPG 390 drum unit and Thomas Hopf told me that neither was a prototype for the EEH Zaunkoenig drum sampler.
    The mystery continues! :mrgreen:

    Also Chris Franke himself stated in interviews that "we had people in west Germany, Berlin and New York making special equipment for us"
    and check this interview segment from a Ed Buller interview in "Sound On Sound" magazine:

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995_ar ... ?print=yes

    specifically please look at the 'analogue electronica' section, where he talks about early sampling attempts by Chris Franke and the 'core memory'
    -I 've heard people talk about Tangerine Dream had sampled sounds as early as 1976 - and I'm not talking about their tape / Mellotron libraries :lollo:
  6. Now that I'm think about it again, this would be easily being a rack-mounted Kobol - you can't never be sure with TD :mrgreen: - although the module hasn't any memories buttons.
    Sadly Chris Frank mostly refuses to talk about the past
  7. Moogulator

    Moogulator Admin

    Maybe it is possible to ask the guy who used it? Or is it impossible?
    I'd almost try to expect the closer thought first about the Kobol. Though those guys seemed to have and own a lot of special gear, so it might be possible they have used very special gear here. I don't really know, but it is sure they had access to the early wave computers from PPG, there's even a video available with one of those.

    but ok, it's really just speculative talk from my side. good luck.
  8. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    Yeah, probably because he gave away his modular rig anyway. To Hans Zimmer, if I´m not mistaken here.

  9. Moogulator

    Moogulator Admin

    is that the old "I don't want to be judge by the gear" statement? understandable, but…
  10. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    I don´t think so. Various sources claim that the climate within the band wasn´t too friendly, and I guess in the end there was a bit of a bad feeling between Franke and Froese. Which ultimately prompted Franke to leave. According to Paul Stump, Froese never visited Franke at home, and the only times they met would have been in the studio.

    Not really cozy.

    And I for one could very well imagine that he´s fed up with talking about gear at some point, telling the same old stories over and over again.

  11. what about the "Digital Sequencer / Trigger Selector"?
    was build by Helmut Groethe or is it the "Computer Studio Sequencer"?
    Anyone? :selfhammer: :?

    thanks :mrgreen:
  12. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    Can you specify the "Digital Sequencer / Trigger Generator" a bit more? You might be referring to the Roboterwerke Rhythmin´ Robot with Digital Sequencer combo (quite a massive 19" rackmount system, complete with drum synthesiser not unlike the Simmons SDS 5). The Grothe sequencer was, if I recall correctly, used for "White Eagle" or "Logos" (those black boxes behind Froese and Schmoelling). Not sure about the Computerstudio Sequencer, though.

  13. As far as I am informed, this has not changed much since then.
  14. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    Which comes to no surprise...

    Franke has pretty much vanished from the surface of the planet. Haven´t heard much new work coming from his studio other than scoring shoddy sci-fi flicks.

  15. Yes Stephen, I'm talking about the device that's under the Moog/PPG/Syntec/Projekt Elektronik modules :selfhammer: .
    the roboterwerke device was made by Franz Knuettel, too - there's an attached PDF with the roborwerke prducts @ matrixsynth:

    http://m.matrixsynth.com/2008/02/robote ... chine.html

    I see that is somehow hard to find info about all these things: so many years had passed form late 70's - early 80's, even then, one obstacle is that I'm not speaking German and also, just because these companies were small or one-person operated, is difficult to locate.
    Please see the linked picture, that contains the most reliable info I could find.

    thanks to anyone responded :D
  16. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    As for the Grothe Sequencer, somebody here on this forum (Intercorni?) pointed out that one of these black boxes behind Froese (around the time of "Logos") was actually displaying the OS and software of the PPG 340/380 on its built-in screen, so my guess would be that Grothe helped making the PPG a bit more, erm, roadworthy perhaps. If these black boxes are more than just a hoax (what I believe(d) them to be), they might be simple synthesiser voices, perhaps based around CEM or SSM chips (maybe they even took the Curtis devices to test CEM ICs with and used them as a simple programmable monophonic synth voice under micro-computer control. Maybe they were controlled from the 340/380 rig, who knows? I don´t, that´s for certain ;-) ).

    Around "White Eagle" or "Logos", I find the sounds used for the sequencer patterns *very* Roland SH-101/MC-202-like, and if I recall correctly, both were based on Curtis ICs. But this is only guessing wildly...

  17. intercorni

    intercorni |||||

    that's right!

  18. Cyborg

    Cyborg ...

    Wir hatten im MusicShop Berlin (Jahnel) oft Geräte von Tangerine Dream zum Verkauf. Wir hatten u.a. ein Mellotron nebst Ersatzrahmen, alles von mit speziellen Effektsounds die live kaum zu realisieren gewesen wären. Dann hatten wir da diverse Gerätschaften von PPG, den 1002 oder 1020 (?), Wavecomputer und auch ein größeres Moog-System. Das hatte damals Reinhard Lakomy gekauft, der vor der Wende noch einer der "Spitzen_Elektroniker" in der DDR war. Wahrscheinlich war das System aber nicht von Christoph sondern von Edgar.
    Einige Umbauten an Geräten wurden auch von "Peter Schwerdtfeger" gemacht, frag aber nicht welche.
  19. intercorni

    intercorni |||||

    PPG hatte damals ein 340/380 System an Edgar Froese verkauft, mit doppelten Bildschirmen und Tastatur, damit man Sequencer und Klangerzeugung damit editieren konnte.
    Normalerweise musste man ja zwischen beiden Komponenten hin- und her schalten.
    Dieses System wurde aber nicht ausgeschlachtet, Wolfgang Palm hat aber auch kein weiteres System an TD verkauft. Dennoch liefen auf den
    Bildschirmen ja die 340/380 Software wie man schön auf dem Foto sehen kann. Dann muss jemand das 340/380 bzw Teile davon nachgebaut haben.
  20. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    I´ve still got the original flightcase of Froese´s Wavecomputer 360, complete with "Tangerine Dream -- Electronic Equipment -- Handle with Care" sticker on it, and various airline badges (NYC, Tokyo, Berlin, W. Düren). It needs some new foam lining, though.

  21. I f you have interesting info, in English please :mrgreen: :selfhammer: :P :roll:
    thanks again

    btw, about the Groethe sequencers behind Edgar and Johannes , I was thinking too that they are a hoax. - I'm mean what are they controlling? :twisted: :P
    O.K., their size justifies having voice cards inside - similar to that E-Mu / SSM voice card Chris Franke has but I don't know :roll:

    now, about Chris Franke disappearing , I just wish that he's well in his health at least - he's important :mrgreen:
  22. SvenSyn

    SvenSyn ...

    In this Video you can see Chris Franke using his Big Synth. Although it looks like Full-Playback and he like an atom power plant operator, I think a really nice footage of classical TD lineup Froese/Frnake/Schmoelling

  23. I visited TD in the nineties in their Berlin studio. I talked beside many other things about the "White Eagle" (the song) sequences. Edgar told me, that they used the Jupiter 8 Arpeggiator. The settings are 2 Octaves and RND (random order). Programming these settings on any other Arpeggiator and holding the correct keys results in something like the example below. I added a bass sequence and some pad overdubs but no drums:

    play: http://www.joergschaaf.de/White_Eagle.mp3
  24. psicolor

    psicolor Busfahrer und Bademeister

    Uninteressant, aber dafür auch auf Deutsch:
    Es is schon erstaunlich, wieviel Gerümpel man braucht, um Leute in ne gute Stimmung zu bringen, wenn man dies mit Elektromusik tut. Andere Unterhaltung-Dienstleister hams da oft leichter im Sinne von Gewicht und Kosten.
  25. ppg360

    ppg360 fummdich-fummdich-ratata

    In some interview Johannes Schmoelling pointed out that they used the JP-8 arpeggiator a lot for improvising, and many of the random stuff the JP came up with was actually used for final tracks. The arpeggiator is definitely the feature I liked most about the Jupiter.

    While we are at it, I was listening to "Force Majeure" a while ago, and I was wondering what type of rhythm and accompaniment device they used for some tracks (where the album turns really silly, but only briefly, luckily). Too early for a Wersi CX. Any ideas?

    Other electromusic bands never looked that cool on stage. A 909, a 303 and a 202, an 808 plus some cheapo mixer just doesn´t look cool -- even though the results maybe similiar to some extent.

  26. intercorni

    intercorni |||||

  27. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Klingt schön, kam dieses Stück von TD auch in einem Tatort vor? Klang ziemlich ähnlich, hatte ich neulich bei YouTube angeschaut. :)
  28. "White Eagle" erschien mit leicht abgewandelter Melodie im Tatort "Das Mädchen auf der Treppe". Unter gleichem Namen kam auch eine Single auf dem Markt. Das Original "White Eagle" gefällt mir trotzdem wesentlich besser.
  29. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hast Du für Dein Beispiel den Spectralis benutzt?
  30. OK - erwischt;-)